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Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

• ... that the creator of the Barney & Friends theme song laughed when he found out that it was used in torture at Guantanamo Bay?

Two things here. The Gitmo playlist isn't actually a playlist, according to the article. Secondly, and more importantly, the hook makes the subject seem quite callous when the article it comes from explains that he found it ludicrous. [1] Secretlondon (talk) 19:20, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• The article title is currently subject to a move discussion, which does not preclude inclusion on DYK. As for the phrasing... the full quote certainly seems to indicate that he felt the concept of music torture was ludicrous: "It seemed so ludicrous that something totally innocuous for children could threaten the mental state of an adult," he says. "I would rate the annoyance factor to be about equal with hearing my neighbour's leaf blower. It can set my teeth on edge, but it won't break me down and make me confess to crimes against humanity". It downplays that these songs were played on repeat, at high volumes, for captive listeners.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I will comment as the original writer of the hook that I was slightly more comfortable with the previous phrasing of the hook that didn't mention torture, but it does seem to be the consensus (Clive Stafford Smith included) that the music was used in torture. I don't think it violates any Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons guidelines, but I am open to changes to the hook. Based5290 :3 (talk) 22:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the OP that the wording is misleading in making the subject seem callous towards torture. This seems like a serious violation of our BLP principles. We could replace "laughed" to "considered it ludicrous". JMCHutchinson (talk) 10:08, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Changed per above.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Good damage control. However, the WP article is currently missing mention of the "ludicrous" aspect.—Bagumba (talk) 11:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Sentence now reads "Bob Singleton, the music director of Barney & Friends, laughed when learning of the theme song 'I Love You' being used by interrogators and argued that it was ludicrous to believe it could psychologically alter detainees." I think this is close enough to the hook? Based5290 :3 (talk) 17:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

In what sense was Bob Singleton "the creator" of the theme song? According to Barney & Friends the tune was an old, public domain, song This Old Man, and the words were by "homemaker Lee Bernstein for a children's book titled "Piggyback Songs"". DuncanHill (talk) 23:03, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• He may have brought the two together; the article also mentions that Bernstein ended up pursuing a lawsuit. Would "music composer" be a better descriptor? — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

That's the problem, we don't know how to describe him. Arranger maybe? He's not the composer if it's an old old tune. The "Piggyback Songs" book was made up of new words to old tunes, so it seems Bernstein brought the old tune and her new words together. Singleton is not mentioned in this report of the law suit. DuncanHill (talk) 00:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Wikia has him as music director. I've been looking for an RS that has the same thing.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:38, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Alright, his LA-times editorial (from which the "I Just Laughed" quote can also be derived) has "music director".  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Replaced with "... that the music producer of Barney & Friends laughed when he found out that its theme song was used in torture at Guantanamo Bay?" — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. DuncanHill (talk) 01:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

We've still got the idea that he finds torture funny. Secretlondon (talk) 17:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually it's fine. It now says "considered it ludicrous" Secretlondon (talk) 17:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• More Gitmo The WP article currently reads:

  Other music allegedly used included songs from AC/DC, Marilyn Manson, Rage Against the Machine, Britney Spears, the Bee Gees, Barney & Friends, and Sesame Street.

  But the hook doesn't convey that Barney was "allegedly" used. Not sure if it's the hook or the article that needs fixing.—Bagumba (talk) 11:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Fixed. Article no longer uses "allegedly", since there seems to be a pretty good number of sources for all of them. Based5290 :3 (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• ... that John Hawks was the first professionally trained architect to stay in the Thirteen Colonies?

  Why him (1731-1790, stayed in the Colonies from 1764 on) and not e.g. Peter Harrison (architect) (1716-1775, professionally trained 1743-1745, stayed in the Colonies from 1745 on)[2]? There's also someone like William Buckland (architect), perhaps others. Fram (talk) 11:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Hm. I should've known better than to trust a state library on that claim. Damn hometown hero effect. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 01:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

  The article says "Hawks was the first professionally-trained architect to practice in North Carolina, as well as the first to reside permanently in the Thirteen Colonies." That's a different claim! Secretlondon (talk) 17:01, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Is it? I don't think it's saying he's the first N. Carolinian to stay, and what's the difference between "stay" and "reside permanently"? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 01:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Next DYK

• Why "Kingdom of Bicycles" and not "自行车王国", but "məθkʷəy̓" and not "Muthkwey"? Americanist phonetic notation is not written in English or the Latin alphabet, although some parts resemble it, and is unintelligible for probably more people here than Mandarin (or Cantonese or whichever is used). We don't use "Цэцэйхэн" for Checheyigen either, even though that one as well has some recognisable characters. Fram (talk) 11:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  If this were about the title of the article, I would fully agree with you. However, given that this is a hook in DYK, and furthermore is the "quirky" hook as well, I'd be inclined not to say this is a hill to die on. Put it this way - there have been significantly more egregious liberties taken in the quirky slot over the years, that I'd be consider more worth fighting than this one...  — Amakuru (talk) 15:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  That's the attitude that just makes these issues go on and on and on though... There is nothing "quirky" about a hook being unreadable for most readers, and there seems to be no reason why this is done in this case and not in others (and it is a good thing it isn't done in other cases). Fram (talk) 16:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  More generally, the article itself does not meet accessibility standards (MOS:OTHERLANG) and MOS:FORITA. Making the hook and article accessible for all readers, instead of most, seems a rather good hill to die on to me. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  Speaking of italics, {{lang}} doesn't automatically italicize Halkomelem-language text; AFAICT this is because it considers it to be written in a non-Latin script. If that's correct, then we need to transliterate it per MOS:NOTLATIN. Otherwise, it should be manually italicized. jlwoodwa (talk) 18:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I've unpiped it.--Launchballer 23:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I think it should be wrapped in {{transliteration|hur}} now (displaying as muthkwey), per WP:DYKMOS § C10. jlwoodwa (talk) 01:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(November 15, tomorrow)

Monday's FL

(November 18)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

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