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This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies, and its processes can be discussed.

Special occasion request for September 11 Digital Archive, September 11

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I realise that it is too late for the the same anniversary day of the September 11 Attacks, but it would be nice if September 11 Digital Archive could be featured in the next few days. ―Panamitsu (talk)

Queue 3

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Margaret Coe

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@Premeditated Chaos, AnotherColonialHistorian, and Trailblazer101: The image is indeed tagged as CC-BY-3.0 in commons, but I don't believe that's correct. I don't see anywhere at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW4yKuf7O-0 where that license is stated. This is discussed on the nom page, but the argument that "YouTube clips are allowed on the site" doesn't seem grounded in policy. RoySmith (talk) 15:41, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see it anywhere either. SL93 (talk) 19:42, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've pulled it and nominated the image for deletion on commons. RoySmith (talk) 20:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I look at it, I'm also dubious about File:Margaret Coe - Steps to the Sea - 1986 - University of Oregon.jpg. The commons page claims it is CC-BY-4.0 but I don't see any actual evidence of that. RoySmith (talk) 21:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

La Mojana

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@TheNuggeteer, Chipmunkdavis, and Sammi Brie: I don't get the hook. What does the arrival of the Spanish have to do with canal building? Indigenous cultures performed all sorts of feats of engineering long before europeans arrived. The implication that the Zenú would not be expected to be able to build canals is decidedly ethnocentric. Surely we can come up with a better hook? RoySmith (talk) 15:55, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The framing was inspired on the source, which discusses "la relación dinámica de las poblaciones prehispánicas con el entorno antes de la colonización española". The main impact of the Spanish arrival is on the availability of historical records. Dating anything before that seems difficult, I found sources with various estimates for the post-canal dry period. Our Zenú articles gives a 1,200/1,300 year span for the canal system existing; who knows what was built when and to what extent. At any rate, I found reading about the canal irrigation system interesting and a hook can be something that is obviously true. That said, I am not wedded to the topic. I tried an alt at Template:Did you know nominations/La Mojana based on the past four years of flooding, but per the reviewer it turned into quite a banal statement about wetlands without the background context that was in my head. Figuring out how to make the ALT work may also be interesting. Otherwise, I found the land conflicts and the climate/agricultural relationships interesting, but didn't manage to find a way to make either hooky. CMD (talk) 16:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the basic premise of the hook is fine, my only objection is the "before the arrival of the Spanish" part. How about something more along the lines of:
... that the waterway system in La Mojana dates back to the pre-Columbian Zenú culture? RoySmith (talk) 16:25, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if there is a link between the Zenú system and the modern one, the Zenú seem to have stopped cultivating the area a few hundred years before Spanish arrival reshaped the area. CMD (talk) 16:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article implies such a link: The Zenú culture ... manipulated the waterways through means such as the construction of canals. The waterways continue to play an important role in modern times RoySmith (talk) 16:40, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about:
... that the pre-Columbian Zenu culture may have been driven out of La Mojana by climate change in about 1300? RoySmith (talk) 16:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The link is that both societies worked within and modified the naturally existing waterways to suit their needs, not that the first set of modifications led to the second set of modifications. No objection to the new hook suggestion, with the caveat that 1300 is a late date (Zenú gives 1100 as the start of population decline), so maybe "before 1300" or similar. CMD (talk) 16:51, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Masada myth

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@SL93, Onceinawhile, and Launchballer: The article talks about a military funeral, but the hook says state funeral. It's not clear these are synonyms, especially given that we've got distinct articles for each of those. RoySmith (talk) 16:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source says 'state funeral', so changed to that. I should have spotted that part of the hook.--Launchballer 16:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I admit I hadn’t realized that those are different things. The source itself, in the quoted excerpt in the DYKnom, says "state burial ceremony" at the beginning and "formal military ceremony" at the end. I agree that consistency is best. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, this is now at WP:ERRORS. I previously suggested that we should exclude such contentious topics from DYK and still reckon that would be prudent. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Earl de Grey, Kingston upon Hull

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@Kimikel, DandelionAndBurdock, and Silver seren: Surely we can do better than basing a hook on an urban legend sourced to what appears to be a sister publication of the WP:DAILYMAIL?— Preceding unsigned comment added by RoySmith (talk • contribs)

The Hull Daily Mail is owned by Reach plc, who owns the Daily Mirror.--Launchballer 16:28, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kimikel @DandelionAndBurdock @Silver seren pinging. BorgQueen (talk) 17:08, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, is the argument because of that that every single regional paper in the UK is unusable? Feels like we should just write off the entirety of the country if we're going to go that route. SilverserenC 17:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any evidence of Hull Daily Mail being unreliable? I did notice that the newspaper has won several awards of the years, and its article doesn't point to any controversy. SL93 (talk) 17:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Hull Daily Mail is not related to the Daily Mail. I don't see any evidence that the HDM is unreliable. And, after all, it is a light-hearted article about urban legends, and it does point out that many of the stories may not be true. Black Kite (talk) 21:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for review of anniversary-themed hook

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Moved to Template:Did you know nominations/Lake Erie Walleye Trail fishing tournament cheating scandal

Older nominations needing DYK reviewers

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The previous list was archived a few days ago, so I've created a new list of 36 nominations that need reviewing in the Older nominations section of the Nominations page, covering everything through August 26. We have a total of 294 nominations, of which 137 have been approved, a gap of 157 nominations that has decreased by 4 over the past 8 days. Thanks to everyone who reviews these and any other nominations!

More than one month old

Other nominations

Please remember to cross off entries, including the date, as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Please do not remove them entirely. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 15:06, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Newbie request

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Hi, I'm new to DYK and I'd appereciate it greatly if someone could review my prepping of Prep area 1. I've used PSHAW to prep the articles and I'd like to check that I haven't failed WP:DYKPBR or anything. Thanks! DimensionalFusion (talk ▪ she/her) 18:05, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, @DimensionalFusion, thank you so much for stepping up!
So, on first glance, I'm seeing a pretty good balance of different countries, US, Moldova, Japan, US, Poland, US, Canada/China, US, US. We usually don't want more than 3 or 4 US-centric hooks. It's good to aim for 3 if you can.
We also typically go for alternating bio/non-bio hooks. You've got eight non-bios, one bio. We'd ideally like to see at least four of each, presented in alternating order.
We also like to make sure the topics are varied. We've got currency, building, manga, video game/music, music, building, tech, building/music. Too many buildings, too much pop culture, a bit too much music, maybe too much tech if you include video game in tech. When you're building a prep set, even for very experienced builders, it's quite common to be attracted to the ones that personally interest you, so keep that in mind.
Do you know how to swap stuff out? Valereee (talk) 13:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T371948
Dammit, broke ping: @DimensionalFusion Valereee (talk) 13:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DimensionalFusion did I break it again? Sheesh. Sorry if I've just pinged you twice, DF. Valereee (talk) 13:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, this isn't me. This is the Reply thingie. Valereee (talk) 13:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, a known glitch. LOL I was like...did I accidentally make decaff? Valereee (talk) 13:49, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What I do is fix the link and then ping in the edit summary.--Launchballer 16:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, good solution! Valereee (talk) 13:09, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Only hypothetically swapping: I assume you remove from the queue and move the template back into approved but I've haven't actually done it yet DimensionalFusion (talk ▪ she/her) 13:34, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You needn't move it back to approved, you can simply move a given hook (from the edit source box, copying the code) to another prep set. Move both the hook and the credits. Try doing it once and come back to have someone check your work before doing the rest. Valereee (talk) 13:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Valereee I've swapped out some of the articles as suggested, feel free to take a look DimensionalFusion (talk ▪ she/her) 16:13, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DimensionalFusion thanks for getting involved. Don't sweat making mistakes. It is inevitable that you will make mistakes while learning how this all works, and that's fine. There's really nothing you can do wrong that can't be fixed, and as long as you learn from your mistakes, everybody's happy. RoySmith (talk) 16:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can tell you that a) I wouldn't have put that Reese hook in prep 1 as there's another Kamala hook in queue 4, b) you should probably ping any editors if you move their nom, and c) that Taste hook is a flagrant breach of WP:DYKFICTION. Otherwise, nice work.--Launchballer 16:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies for the Kamala hook, was unaware of the one in queue 4. DimensionalFusion (talk ▪ she/her) 16:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No need for apologies. Everyone here who has actually done the job of filling preps expects new prep-builders to need time and assistance understanding how a prep is ideally built. No one is pointing these things out as criticisms. It's all completely in the spirit of helping you become expert at this. Please don't feel discouraged, there's a lot to learn about how to build a prep, it's basically a puzzle game with a bunch of moving parts. Which is what makes it fun to do once you know what all the moving parts are. Valereee (talk) 13:07, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the balance looks a lot better now! Valereee (talk) 19:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Storm Talas (2017)

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Per a request on Narutolovehinata5's talk page, I'm asking to un-close my DYK nom for Talas, which was recently closed for me not providing a QPQ. Thanks, 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 04:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overriding another prep builder's pic choice ... Apparent mistake

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@DimensionalFusion, what was this for? BorgQueen (talk) 07:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

seems like they were probably unaware that the first hook always gets the image slot :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Forgot that hooks with pictures always go at the top - I wasn't trying to override a pic choice. Sorry for the error! DimensionalFusion (talk ▪ she/her) 07:34, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh OK, no problem. BorgQueen (talk) 07:39, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 2 (next one up)

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... that "New York's wealthiest janitor" lived atop the Bergdorf Goodman Building?

The said janitor lived in a 14-bed apartment that was at the top of the building. The hook makes it sound like he lived on the roof (which would be an excellent hook if true, but unfortunately...) Black Kite (talk) 10:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius pinging BorgQueen (talk) 11:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cambridge Dictionary gives as example usage: "She and Harry toyed with the idea of living in a penthouse atop the building" so I think we're fine. RoySmith (talk) 12:29, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think "atop" is a bit vague (it certainly means "on top of" in UKENG). I'd actually say that the fact he lived in a 14-room apartment is more hooky, but maybe that's just me. Mind you, since he wasn't actually a janitor anyway ... Black Kite (talk) 13:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's an odd statement considering the dictionary I cited is from one of the most prestigious universities in the UK. RoySmith (talk) 13:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the Cambridge link the example follows the heading "atop | American Dictionary", so it is likely to be US English. TSventon (talk) 14:10, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention that UK dictionaries often don't reflect the way that UK people actually talk anyway outside of academia. Black Kite (talk) 17:55, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If it helps, we can slightly rephrase the hook to "... that "New York's wealthiest janitor" lived on the top floor of the Bergdorf Goodman Building?". That being said, in American English, "atop" can mean "at the top of", and not just "above". Epicgenius (talk) 18:24, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Moved to Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors § Current DYK
 – Vladimir.copic (talk) 02:08, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another one from Queue 2: ... that the course of the River Tay was diverted to allow the construction of the Jubilee Bridge?

The source, however, says that North of [the bridge], the course of the River Tay was diverted to allow the new road to run along the river valley. This doesn't seem to support the hook? I'm not a road person so perhaps this is fine. Pinging people involved: BorgQueen, JuniperChill, Voorts. Vladimir.copic (talk) 23:45, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I read it as the road connecting to the bridge, so it was necessary to divert the river to build that road so that the bridge could be built. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:40, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 5

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Pioneer Fire

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This fails WP:DYKTAG. RoySmith (talk) 09:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was about to post about that. The tag is an "update" tag, which is reasonable because seeing on 22 September a page about a current wildfire that is correct as of 25 August is a bit weird. Pinging @SounderBruce: can you fix this in the next couple of hours or do we need to pull this? It seems to me that there was some rain that stopped the fire from expanding and so nothing much has happened, but that would need to be made explicit in the article. —Kusma (talk) 09:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've moved it to Prep 4. BorgQueen (talk) 17:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SounderBruce ping. BorgQueen (talk) 15:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

El Eternauta: segunda parte (nom)

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Sources do not exactly support "murdered", but I can see why we would want to treat deaths during Dirty War disappearances as murders (just like deaths during the Holocaust are often described as murders independent of how exactly people died). —Kusma (talk) 09:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ping @Cambalachero, @BeanieFan11, @Buidhe for comments. Probably "was disappeared" or better sourcing would be best to save us a trip to WP:ERRORS. —Kusma (talk) 09:15, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This again? Check the nomination. My original hook was "... that comic writer Héctor Germán Oesterheld was victim of an enforced disappearance while writing El Eternauta: segunda parte?" A random user proposed an alternate hook that used "murdered" instead. I voiced my concerns over the new ALT, nobody replied anything, and the nomination was approved. If nobody has any problems with the original hook (and none were mentioned in the nomination) that's the one that should make it to the home page. Besides, "the Argentine Junta" is ambiguous. There's also the Primera Junta, the Junta Grande, and perhaps others. Cambalachero (talk) 13:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kusma: The cited source for the DYK nomination uses the verb "asesinar" in the top line and later in the body for Oesterheld and his daughters. Do other sources dispute this? I would also be fine with Cambalachero's original hook. Rjjiii (talk) 14:10, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with the word "murder" is that it is imprecise. It is an unlawful and premeditated killing, and under those broad conditions we can include a huge range of motivations and methods. "victim of an enforced disappearance" does not deny it being a murder, it's simply more precise on how he died. Cambalachero (talk) 14:36, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cambalachero, changed to
Hope that is fine. —Kusma (talk) 17:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems fine. Cambalachero (talk) 17:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Queue 7

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Storm Ulysses

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@JuniperChill, Dumelow, and Kusma: This needs an end-of-sentence citation. RoySmith (talk) 13:37, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have duplicated the refs from the following sentence which deals with all the James Joyce material - Dumelow (talk) 12:10, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tamurbek Dawletschin

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@Kimikel, Buidhe, and WatkynBassett: I suggest dropping the "3 million of whom died in German captivity" part. I suspect it'll just draw clicks away from the main subject of the hook. RoySmith (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, the entire point of the hook is to contrast between the scale of the atrocity and the paucity of sources about it (t · c) buidhe 14:12, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'll leave it as is. RoySmith (talk) 21:10, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AMES Type 6

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@SL93, Maury Markowitz, and Kimikel: Needs an end-of-sentence citation. Also "spy on" seems like an odd choice of words. How about I change it to "track"? RoySmith (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Spy on" means to watch secretly, which seems appropriate as long as it is supported by the citation. TSventon (talk) 14:12, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added cite. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gwent Broadcasting

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@JuniperChill, Sammi Brie, and Dumelow: The hook as worded is confusing to me. I originally read it as had been described as a "licence to print money", which made sense to me; there's an assertion that it would make a lot of money, followed by the contrary statement that it was in fact a failure. This is exactly the sort of tension one expects in a hook. It wasn't until I read the "cautioned that .." text in the article that I noticed I had missed the "not" in my first reading.

Also, since you're using "licence", I suggest adding {{British English}} to the top. RoySmith (talk) 14:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this an example of WP:WEASEL words? Or this is just a comment? If so, then (as a promoter,) I am fine to change the hook if its confusing. JuniperChill (talk) 15:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's just confusing wording. My first thought to clarify it was to move the "not a" inside the quotes, but looking at the source, to do that correctly would require two-level quoting which is confusing in a different way. How about I just switch to using ALT0 from the original nom? RoySmith (talk) 15:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine by me (expect that its already in a queue and I can't edit it), though it may be best to wait for responses from Sammi Brie and/or Dumelow JuniperChill (talk) 15:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I assume since Sammi proposed it, she's probably OK with using it, so I'll just do that. RoySmith (talk) 15:49, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Go right ahead. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:34, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I had no preference between the hooks when I reviewed it. I notice a [clarification needed] tag has appeared in the article and ought to be addressed - Dumelow (talk) 12:13, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Poecilia vandepolli

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@SL93 and Surtsicna: I wonder if existed, then it did not, and now it does again goes past quirky into MOS:EASTEREGG territory? RoySmith (talk) 14:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Surtsicna @SL93 ping. BorgQueen (talk) 14:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I thought MOS:EASTEREGG was just for piped links. Perhaps you mean DYK is not trivia? DimensionalFusion (talk ▪ she/her) 16:56, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how. "Keep piped links as intuitive as possible. Per the principle of least astonishment, make sure that the reader knows what to expect when clicking on a link. You should plan your page structure and links so that everything appears reasonable and makes sense." There is only one link, and all of the information is at that one link. SL93 (talk) 17:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever. My point was it seems excessively mysterious even for a quirky slot, but if people think it's fine, go for it. RoySmith (talk) 21:10, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, excessively mysterious. It seems to me that if we are going to take all the fun out of DYK hooks, we may as well not have DYK. Surtsicna (talk) 05:29, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PSHAW feature request

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When you add the "The result was: promoted ..." line to the nom page, could you also link to what prep it went into? I know that's in the edit comment, but having it in the nom as well would be convenient. RoySmith (talk) 16:40, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Schwede66 16:54, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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