Talk:Breaker Morant

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Breaker Morant article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 3 months

This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, program, labour (but Labor Party)) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Breaker Morant was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 6, 2006	WikiProject A-class review	Not approved
December 5, 2006	Good article reassessment	Delisted

Current status: Delisted good article

Military history: Biography / South Pacific / British / European C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Australia, New Zealand and South Pacific military history task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force

Additional information:
/
	This article has failed an A-Class review.

Australia: Queensland / Crime / Military history Mid‑importance

	Australia portal Breaker Morant is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Queensland (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian crime (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Australia, New Zealand and South Pacific military history task force (assessed as Mid-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia, or the State Library of Queensland.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).

British Empire Low‑importance

	British Empire portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject British Empire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of British Empire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.British EmpireWikipedia:WikiProject British EmpireTemplate:WikiProject British EmpireBritish Empire
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by when more than 5 sections are present.

Re. "Execution section" - Sentence implying gunshots may not have been heard

"Witton wrote that he was by then at Pretoria railway station and heard the volley of shots that killed his comrades. However, Robert Poore, who attended the execution, wrote in his diary that he put Witton and Lieutenant Picton on the train that left at 05:30 hours. Thus, Witton would have been several miles on the way to Cape Town when the execution occurred."

The last sentence suggests that Witton's account that he heard the killing shots is inaccurate and possibly embellished. The evidence provided is insufficient to justify this suggestion. Anecdotally, I know that the .303 can be heard from several miles away. The .303 is a large, supersonic round and can be heard from several miles away in forested terrain. For further information, search hunting forums regarding audible range of various gunshots. The reasonably flat geography of Pretoria would allow multiple .303 gunshots to be heard from "several miles" away.

I suggest that someone with the authority to do so rewords the sentence to remove the implication that Witton was embellishing his account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.101.171.156 (talk) 02:37, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Even better, we should remove all material cited to Witton because he is not a reliable source. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BVC photograph

This photograph is not properly licensed. If no author is known, then we can hardly use a 70 year post-mortem licence. Unless someone knows who took it or an early publication which means it is out of copyright, it will need to be deleted. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the oath quoted verbatim?

There is no encyclopaedic value in reproducing the oath Morant took when he initially enlisted for the war. In the first case, the provisions can be easily summarised, and in the second case, he was commissioned before he committed any war crimes we are aware of, and would have taken an officer's oath at that time. It would be similar, but not exactly the same, and of course, as a British Army commission would not have mentioned anything about Australia. I will shortly summarise it and delete the full text. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History Net

I'm removing the Ron Soodalter/History Net citations and material, per the discussion here. It is not of sufficient quality for a GA, which is where this is going in the first instance. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there bloat?

There seems to be a lot of stuff in this article that is just bloat. An entire section that makes no mention of the primary subject of this article should probably be deleted. Betterkeks (talk) 00:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How about we get the basic chronology sorted out and trim from there? At present, the article is in very poor condition, and I'm waiting for access to a couple of sources. I'm a bit distracted with RW stuff for the next month, but will be pushing on with getting this to GAN later this year once all the nonsense of Witton's fairytale has been removed and the narrative of the reliable sources is put in place. I presume you are referring to the "A Squadron at Sweetwaters Farm" section which provides background of what happened with the other squadron of the BVC? That is highly relevant context for what happened with Hunt's squadron, especially as Handcock transferred to Hunt's squadron, and had already been involved in murders. I expect that once the rest of the article has been rewritten, this section will be trimmed down, but it isn't necessary now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:22, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]